Tangled Rabbit (00:00) Welcome to Untangled, a podcast for founders and people considering becoming founders. This is where building a business gets personal. Each episode features honest conversations with founders about standing out in crowded markets, defining what makes them and their work different, and building something that actually fits. I'm Beth Elliott, and I'm glad you're here. Let's jump in. Tangled Rabbit (00:23) Welcome back to another episode of Untangled. I'm here today with Valerie Dennis Craven, and we are doing an official Untangling session today. This is the first time Valerie and I are meeting, first conversations. And for those of you who are new to this podcast, Untangling Sessions is one of the services that Tangled Rabbit offers. We work with founders to untangle where they're at in their business. Oftentimes that's early founders who are figuring out niche. Do they even like the business model that they are developing? Do they understand the customers that they're going after and helping provide clarity in how they speak about who they are, what offerings they provide, and is the business the business, the one that they're uniquely positioned to build? Valerie, thanks so much for joining us today. How are you doing? Valerie Dennis Craven (01:07) Great, thank you. Happy to be here, excited. Tangled Rabbit (01:10) So to jump in, I want to just confirm how can we make the most out of our time together today. Valerie Dennis Craven (01:15) Yeah, I am really I'm billing myself as a fractional marketing strategist with a content slant. But you know, even to myself, sometimes when I'm explaining it to other people, or when I'm thinking it through my head, it's kind of like, what does that really mean? You know? I mean, I bring a lot of experience throughout marketing, sales, biz dev, client services. But then I feel like because I can do and have done so much, then it kind of gets like messy, muddied quick and I have a hard time either articulating or helping like prospective clients see like where do I fit in and what value can I most bring to them. Tangled Rabbit (01:52) Perfect. Can you tell me a bit about your founder journey? Valerie Dennis Craven (01:55) Yeah, so I mean, like I said, I've done a lot. So what kind of got me here is I'm just curious by nature. I'm interested. I went to school for journalism and did work in newspapers for 10 years. So I love that because it lets me dig in and wear a lot of different hats. But then for the next decade, I moved into marketing agencies, a variety of really leadership and director level type roles in content accounts type of thing. leading different teams, different clients. And really during that marketing time, I've freelanced on and off. And so then really I got laid off a little over two years ago. I was like, should this freelance be like full time? Should I go on my own? I wasn't quite ready to like, you know, I guess pull the bandaid off yet at that time, but then a year later, so a little over a year ago, I decided to give it a try and I've really only been full time since September 2025. Tangled Rabbit (02:49) Okay. Valerie Dennis Craven (02:50) Yeah, so now's a great time to kind of evaluate how it's going too. Tangled Rabbit (02:55) So September, 2025, you have just over six months, eight months, something like that, right? Nine months. ⁓ Valerie Dennis Craven (03:00) Yeah. Yep. Tangled Rabbit (03:02) I hate this question to ask and I'm going to ask it anyway and most of the entrepreneurs who are listening are going to be like, you went there. How's it going so far? Valerie Dennis Craven (03:09) It's going well I I think partially because I did have a little bit of that buffer where two years ago I thought I was going to so I kind of dipped my toes in and let people know so I almost had kind of like a year plus ramp up It's going well, but again even when I like talk to people introduce myself like pitch new potential opportunities, I just still really kind of struggle to help them see where I can fit in and best help them too. Tangled Rabbit (03:36) So how do you describe your business today? Valerie Dennis Craven (03:38) when I'm talking to... know, prospective clients or even just kind of meeting people that could be kind of those connectors. I mean, I kind of feel like I almost like say a lot of different things because it's, it really is specific to each, you know, how do you have your business set up? How do you have your marketing team? What, what do you see as a greatest need? And I can fill like a lot of, you know, like different roles. so maybe the answer is, and I don't even know, do I like bill myself kind of as that Swiss army? tool of the marketing team really. I'm kind of trying to figure that out myself too. Tangled Rabbit (04:11) So I'm going to break this into two conversations and we can decide which path we want to follow. The first conversation is Valerie Dennis Craven (04:16) Okay. Tangled Rabbit (04:18) when you're out networking with people and you need to be referable. Valerie Dennis Craven (04:20) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (04:21) second one is I'm in a sales situation and I need to run a sales call. Which one do you think is the greatest need? Or is there another one that I'm not addressing? Valerie Dennis Craven (04:31) would almost say when I'm networking and it's not a specific thing, it's more difficult for me to articulate because it is more open-ended. So that is probably, would probably be more helpful. I think I'm pretty okay once I know a situation and I'm like, yes, this is what I can do for, know, based on your need, but when it's more open-ended. Tangled Rabbit (04:41) Yes. The thing that I often coach is that... You don't, you can sell whatever you want. When you sit down with somebody, you can sell whatever you want based off of their need. But you need to get them in the door with something. Valerie Dennis Craven (04:59) Mm-hmm. Yes. Tangled Rabbit (05:03) You need to be known as the one who does something so that when people hear those keywords, you are the only one that comes to mind. I know people who sell websites and they do all of the strategy across a business for a certain size business, right? But they know that for that business size, websites is a thing that gets them in the door. So then the question becomes, who do you want to serve and what problem do they have? So let's start with who do you want to serve? Valerie Dennis Craven (05:30) Yeah, I would say... I mean, it's almost easier for me to articulate the problem I can solve maybe. But I feel like I'm very left brain and right brain and I can really kind of like bring structure to chaos. Like I love building things. So it's like a lot of times I've been the first in a role or, you know, and that's not even to say it's like, Tangled Rabbit (05:36) All right, go for it. Valerie Dennis Craven (05:55) a new company or anything. But they maybe are just getting to the point that they are learning that they need to invest more in marketing, they need to expand the resources that they're putting in, or what they'd been doing previously didn't work. And so maybe they were like, looking for a new direction. I'm really good at building systems, helping people scale, helping people understanding their audience so they can be and speak to their audience the way their audience needs at that point in time. Tangled Rabbit (06:26) Do you want to be positioned as? building a new marketing function in an organization. Valerie Dennis Craven (06:31) I do, I love that challenge. Tangled Rabbit (06:33) All right. Is there a type of organization? Valerie Dennis Craven (06:36) ⁓ Definitely, definitely B2B. Just because I feel like, again, I kind of have that more, I don't want to say technical because B2B is not technical, that kind of a little more like value, straightforward language messaging that is involved with B2B or like kind of the thought process that it takes, you know, that kind of like buying committee, multiple stakeholders within creating a decision within the marketing. experience nurturing toward, you know, sales. So. Tangled Rabbit (07:06) products, services. Valerie Dennis Craven (07:08) I do both. I mean, I would say there's definitely some products, but a lot of them are like even software as a service type of thing. So there's still kind of, feel like part of my thing is I am in a variety of different industries on purpose because I really like. variety of different industries, but then I also try, that's also kind of my safety net of like, you know, if one industry is hit or, you know, the economy is, inflation's increasing. So it's like that kind of also hedges my bets a little bit of consistency for my own. guess financial career well-being Tangled Rabbit (07:40) Are there any other? defining characteristics of your ideal client. Valerie Dennis Craven (07:43) I've definitely had clients that are a variety of like, you know, openness to whether it's trust, you know, trusting, not just me, but maybe like believing in marketing as a function, maybe is a good way to say it, like having some buy-in and support there. So they aren't just filling a role to check boxes. They see the value. that's something that I, I'm happy to bring is I work alongside sales and even customer success type of team, you know, like it's not just working in a silo of marketing to acquire customers and then handing it off to other people, but really having that experience throughout the whole. Tangled Rabbit (08:24) Who hires you? Valerie Dennis Craven (08:25) I would say a lot of times I really sit right like maybe right below a C-suite type of person. Maybe it's a CMO, a COO type of person. what I really enjoy is kind of like coming in when marketing teams are or there is no marketing team or they're being replaced or, but like, you know, when that just really to get my arms around that whole marketing function. And that isn't to say it's just me sometimes, or I'm working alongside existing people or whatever, but really to, you know, lead, lead kind of that like bridge the strategy to the day to day execution kind of be that bridge right under. a CMO. Tangled Rabbit (09:06) Why can't they do that? Valerie Dennis Craven (09:08) Well, I'm glad they can't, I guess, because there's a need for me. would say a lot of times when I work with clients, especially in that B2B space, I can apply across marketing, but then I do lean into content. because I've been an account, you know, like an account leader, really leading accounts and project management teams even, I can see, I know how content like impacts the entire, marketing system. I'm not the one say like, you know, if we're doing email marketing, I know enough to be like, okay, this is, know, I'm not just like, fulfilling the content, but still like kind of strategizing the whole orchestration and how it fits into an overall strategy. to answer your question, I feel like a lot of the CMOs, and maybe this is just how it is ended up, that I'm working with are not really driving that day to day. They're setting more of the high level strategy and working alongside leadership in other ways. Tangled Rabbit (10:09) Do your customers tend to have the same level of complexity? They're doing the same kinds of things. Like there's things that you do organize or not. Valerie Dennis Craven (10:18) I I'd say the other client, they're just getting started with their CRM, for example. So I certainly couldn't, you know, be like, when we do emails and like email marketing would be a Q3 thing for that smaller client. You know, so I can't certainly be we are going to like score these people because there's nothing to score yet. And maybe what I learned from all of this is like, I do need to just have a more repeatable type of, you know, I don't know. Like, am I making more work for myself Tangled Rabbit (10:50) It makes it hard for people to refer you. That's what the main punchline is. So that's why I'm trying to find the through line of what is the thing. Valerie Dennis Craven (10:56) I know, yes. This is why I was interested in this. like, I have a lot to untangle here. Tangled Rabbit (11:00) Mm-hmm. Yep. Okay, so you've talked about liking variety. You've talked about wanting to hedge your bets, if you will, by having a diverse client base. What is... What is kind of the earliest level of maturity that you'd come in? And then the next question is gonna be what's the most maturity at which you'd probably step out? Valerie Dennis Craven (11:21) It's definitely more of that mid to large size organization. And really maybe that, you know, I, maybe I said this earlier, but like the sweet spot is kind of, they've, they've just grown to that next level. So that's when they realize, wow, we need more than just this like kind of duct tape or like, you know, having like one or two junior people. or given the interns and tasks type of thing. so I can bring my structures, my systems that I've put in place for others, obviously tailored to those specific Tangled Rabbit (11:54) what makes up an organization that's too mature for you. Valerie Dennis Craven (11:57) probably where I really do have just kind of a siloed defined role or they're like, you know, no, we have all of these structures. We have all these systems in place. We don't need somebody to come bring them together and establish them or clean them up or wrangle them. know, this is our, this is our system. We need you to fulfill some, you know, content type things. Tangled Rabbit (12:23) I think one of the things that's throwing me, and I know that you have your clients and as you're talking about this, this probably mirrors what you're seeing come through to you for who's coming in. You said that you were positioning yourself as a fractional marketer. Do I remember that right? Valerie Dennis Craven (12:39) Yes. Tangled Rabbit (12:39) when I think of level of complexity, once you've hired a CMO, that seems like there's a level of budget assigned. I would picture a breadth of team. Is that not the case? Valerie Dennis Craven (12:53) I mean, in both of my main clients, the CMOs, you want to even call them that, they're fractional as well too. Tangled Rabbit (13:00) ⁓ Valerie Dennis Craven (13:00) ⁓ In fact, for my main client, I work more. I have more hours in my retainer than the CMO does. Tangled Rabbit (13:06) So what makes you appealing to fractional CMOs? Valerie Dennis Craven (13:09) I would say because I'm not afraid to like, you know, roll my sleeves up and dig One of your questions was, ⁓ you know, you mentioned, what wouldn't I do? I while I am not generally say like the day to day, you know, delivery type of person and marketing. I mean, if that's what needs to get done today, and we need to quick turn and everyone's at capacity, then I would dig in and, you know, kind of just knock it out if that's what's needed to keep things moving along or to stay like on our structure. Really that I can step in and if that person's gone, if that person's busy, I mean, probably for both my main clients, I some degree might put some more hours, some weeks, in than they do just because they're also Then I can... I'm somebody they can trust. certainly to keep everything moving, make decisions. I think for me personally, I... I like being just right under the CMO because there's a little less pressure on me maybe. Tangled Rabbit (14:11) It's different pressure. You're dealing with a different level. And that's why I was wondering when you said. Valerie Dennis Craven (14:16) I like that kind of like digging in and even just like the day to day of like helping the people who are the ones like, you know, actually like fulfilling the needs, you know, doing the like deliverables, pushing the, you know, the buttons to connect those automations type of things. Tangled Rabbit (14:33) What I imagine a fractional CMO being compared to the skill sets and mindsets of a COO, who you also mentioned you would serve or have served or want to serve. How does that relationship look like with a COO? Valerie Dennis Craven (14:48) I would say that's probably more and when I said COO I meant more if they don't have like a fractional CMO in place and they're at the point where they only want you know at this point they feel like they just need a director level of you know like marketing leadership type of thing Tangled Rabbit (14:55) Mm-hmm. Valerie Dennis Craven (15:04) or maybe it's like, you know, different organizations have different names, some of them, you know, like you would call them kind of like that sales supporter, biz dev type of C level. and really just working alongside them to make sure that from a marketing perspective, like we're, you know, everything is cohesive. It's moving along through the whole, like, you know, from very first touch point all the way through continued. serving customers. Tangled Rabbit (15:27) Have you worked directly with the COO? Valerie Dennis Craven (15:30) I have before yes. Tangled Rabbit (15:31) Okay, how has that differed from working with the CMO? Valerie Dennis Craven (15:35) I feel like probably at that point, I'm just putting on a little more of that like account supervisor type of hat or certainly bringing in the biz dev side. And I think that's part of what's attractive just to these people as well too, because even if I'm just hyper focused on content, I'm not just doing content for content sake. I understand the whole like. you know, how it all goes together and ecosystem and everything. And again, a lot of times when I'm working with a COO or chief innovation officer or whatever they want to, know, like business strategy, whatever it's, it's really in place of because they don't have a CMO yet, because again, they're still in that more like building or growing type of phase. Tangled Rabbit (16:16) If you were helping a COO, CIO, C whoever O, that was not a CMO, what would be the end goal? Usually. What problem are you solving for them? Valerie Dennis Craven (16:20) Mm-hmm. leadership where the company doesn't feel like they probably need or maybe even can afford a CMO at this point. But they need a more mature marketing function, especially usually when it's not like a CMO, then it's usually Marketing that is feeding sales consistently, strategically feeding the right kind of qualified leads to sales. Tangled Rabbit (16:51) Would you ever be hiring your boss? Would you ever be hiring the CMO? Valerie Dennis Craven (16:55) That's not outside of the realm of possibility. If it grew that much that there was that need, yes. I feel like every time I say something else, makes it more difficult. Tangled Rabbit (17:10) No, you're getting the long pause. so one of the things, and tell me if I'm over reading into this, when you talk about how you help a CMO. You're more animated? you're you you feel a bit more clear. on how they can use you as a right-hand person and how you dig in beyond where they want to stop. Valerie Dennis Craven (17:29) I guess it's just easier for me to, like, I feel like if we're talking about CIO, COO, X, then it's easier for me to imagine, okay, this is how the team is set up. ⁓ I mean, there's certainly a lot, I've helped clients that don't have that CMO. Tangled Rabbit (17:48) You can serve anybody, right? Just because we say it here that you don't tend to serve, like just because we declare a niche. Valerie Dennis Craven (17:50) Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (17:55) it doesn't have to be the only thing that you serve. Valerie Dennis Craven (17:57) Yeah, because like I said, mean, like I'm coming in even a lot of times when people realize they're at a, you know, that inflection point of growth type of thing. like there, there, there's a new need. I am not just backfilling somebody. I mean, sometimes they've fired their agency or whatever, but especially where I'm fractional. a lot of times they're realizing that they need more or that next level or not only a junior person doing it or the agency isn't giving the right results. if I... Tangled Rabbit (18:32) What's your ideal situation to step into? You've said both of them, right? You've said they're growing and they haven't had the function and you've talked about, man, they had a really crappy experience and now I have to fix it. Those are two different worlds to walk into. Valerie Dennis Craven (18:45) Building from kind of like net new start, really even for lack of a better phrase marketing products to them that they haven't utilized before. And when I say that, mean, maybe they haven't, they're just really growing and using new tactics, marketing tactics they haven't used previously. Maybe that's even just offering a newsletter for the first time or Sometimes it's even as simple as getting serious about consistently posting on social media, really honing in on what their pillars are, content pillars are, and how do those show up across owned, earned, and paid content. really bringing new things to life for the client that get results. and even establishing what do those results look like, helping the client define success. Tangled Rabbit (19:36) The thing that gets. Valerie Dennis Craven (19:36) Content's always going to get me excited, Like, I mean, content's always going to be my like love. but, but, but I also like, I don't like being so niche down. like helping, making sure it's like across the full ecosystem of really marketing sales, customer retention, just throughout the whole like entire. like really life cycle of a client. Not my really that means like specifically for a client this week, we're working on their newsletters and they have multiple newsletters going out and they are for different segments everything from somebody, you know, just Tangled Rabbit (19:57) What does that look like for you? Valerie Dennis Craven (20:15) just signing up to follow the brand versus somebody that's been a customer for a long time. So maybe it's even, you know, thinking through how we'll just take this newsletter, for example, like how can we say the same information but position it specifically for the mindset of the person receiving it? How can we make sure, say if the person that's receiving it that is not a has just learned about this brand if they go to the social media or if they, you know, Google or LLM, the client, that they're seeing the same messaging throughout to, you know, build that brand authority and like create that relationship Tangled Rabbit (20:58) How do you handle content strategy? What's your approach? Valerie Dennis Craven (21:01) would say definitely I, so for content strategy, really understand, the audience audiences, for my clients, ⁓ who they're, you know, like even primary secondary tertiary type clients, understand really the nuances of their product, the competitor landscape. this is all at a very high level. And then, what. the like, again, like what success looks like, you know, whether that's based on like overall marketing, but then my specific relationship to, for example, if I'm brought in to help support the whole marketing strategy, then it's like, you know, like, what is marketing responsible for? How is marketing as a function measured? Certainly, how am I measured? for success. just really wrapping my arms around that. Certainly help because I am such a team marketer too, then just like helping educate them and guide them. Maybe if something along the way of those findings is untapped, unrealistic, staying up on, you know, like the marketing trends of within the industry and the service they provide. Tangled Rabbit (22:08) have you created almost like that sell sheet of services, the buckets of things that you do? Valerie Dennis Craven (22:12) When I started thinking I wanted to go out on my own, I made a list of everything I could do. And then the next day I was like, but I'm choosing my own. like, just because I can doesn't mean I have to, if I don't want to. So then I started cross crossing things out because part of, part of going on my own was because I wanted to do it on my own terms and do what made me happy and, you know, filled my own bucket really. So I think it also just kind of Tangled Rabbit (22:25) Right. Valerie Dennis Craven (22:40) You know, to answer that question though, it kind of comes back to, I do like doing so much. And this is part of, you know, this is the struggle and what got me here is I really liked doing so much to the point that it's hard to hone in on. what I can provide people. it's really, once I have that conversation or see or hear a specific need, then I'm able to articulate, this is how I can help you and fit into your organization. But then when I'm talking to people that would be my referral source, which I'm very big into, I'm not big, I'm an introvert, so I'm not huge into networking. I'm big into like tapping into people's networks, both directions. where I do want to be that person that they think of when they hear a need. But how do I position myself? Tangled Rabbit (23:25) So what landed on the list? Valerie Dennis Craven (23:27) Yeah, I would say, I mean, I would say the way I position myself is yes, I can help with the overall marketing strategy and then really lean in and help with the content strategy. And then that's where it kind of like goes into, can, you know, essentially list deliverables, like, you know, helping with your, you know, just your full funnel content, understanding your ICP, you know, an overall messaging matrix, fulfilling that, things like that too, so. Tangled Rabbit (23:58) This is more just in my mind for you, where I've heard marketing strategy and I've heard content strategy. Are those the two buckets? Okay. Valerie Dennis Craven (24:05) Yes. Tangled Rabbit (24:06) for teams that are new or maybe have had two junior associates or something. they are trying to install executive leadership, whether that's a fractional person or you as a director level, because for some reason you're not going for the CMO. Valerie Dennis Craven (24:19) Yes. Correct. Tangled Rabbit (24:24) Okay. I'm teasing at that one just a little bit, because it just is this thing that's hanging in there. You definitely want to report to a chief officer. That seems very clear. Valerie Dennis Craven (24:35) I I kinda like that, so yeah, so it's... Tangled Rabbit (24:37) You do, you've said it lots of times. You just haven't said it, said it, but you've said it. Valerie Dennis Craven (24:40) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tangled Rabbit (24:44) You seem to help chief officers who are building out a marketing function. You have skill set that allows you to help them develop and execute marketing strategy and content strategy across sales, client success, and marketing. Valerie Dennis Craven (24:45) Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Tangled Rabbit (24:59) How does that like? Valerie Dennis Craven (25:00) it's easy when you say it. Yeah. No, no, I mean, it's great. Yeah. You know, that's the thing. It's like, like I said, I'm in my own head when I write down, this is what I need help with. I'm like, well, why? This is what I do for clients all the time. Like articulate things, but it's hard when I'm in my own head too. So. Tangled Rabbit (25:04) You So I'm saying chief officer is charged with building a scaling marketing teams. by developing and executing marketing strategy, marketing content strategy. It's still a little, it's still kind of buzzwordy, right? Like if you're out in public, you're getting to the point where, okay, you want to work for a chief officer, which is important. Like you can work for somebody who's not a chief officer, but ideally somebody's going to connect you. You want to be connected with the C O of something. Yeah. Who are building or scaling a marketing team? Valerie Dennis Craven (25:30) So yeah. Yes. Yes. Tangled Rabbit (25:48) They are doing that. That's the thing that they are, they are charged to do it. They have to do it. They might not know how to do it. They might not like doing it. And you help them by, and this is like, I don't love the last line, right? Developing and executing marketing content strategy and putting in, but across sales, client success and marketing, that shows a bit of maturity that can live in SaaS, that can live across different pieces. Like what has customer success that's dealing with clients that automatically starts talking about B2B if you have a client success manager, right? Valerie Dennis Craven (26:00) I know that's still kind of like vague and... Yes, yes, absolutely. Tangled Rabbit (26:19) Some of those keywords come into that language already. Valerie Dennis Craven (26:22) And not everybody that I talk to or help does. Yes. Tangled Rabbit (26:26) Sure, but you can. Mm-hmm, and if there are other departments that fit into that, you might want to loop it in, that I help. And there's language that you used, and I can put this in a recap too, but there's language that you used around. ⁓ making sure that each of those teams has the content that they need to be successful. So I help sales, client success, and marketing teams be successful through content strategy by making sure that the messaging is consistent and that customers are receiving the same messaging across the board. I would also encourage you to start thinking about, sure you can work for any C-suite person. Working for a CEO is very different from a COO, which is going to be very different than your value prop to a CMO. If you're there and you're like, God, I really love working with CMOs, they do the strategy. I get to do this work that they don't want to get into. I know that the value is that they want to be across a bunch of different companies doing the strategic level, but they often don't have staff to actually get stuff done. And even if they do have staff, they're probably not trained to do it. They're going to look at that strategic plan and be like, I'll just do what's comfortable and hope for the best. Valerie Dennis Craven (27:32) ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (27:37) If you really love working for a CMO because they provide that strategy piece for you, then what's your value piece to a CMO? And then you can go in and say, I only help CMOs. I help you get stuff done. Valerie Dennis Craven (27:42) Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (27:50) while you are growing a team. Valerie Dennis Craven (27:51) I like that. Yeah, I like that because yes, I have worked with CIO, you know, and they have different like, even measures of success for the marketing function or my role specifically sometimes even. So yes, I get what you, I'm having to kind of manage those relationships a little differently. Tangled Rabbit (28:11) Mm-hmm. And do you enjoy that? You might. Or do you want to set what your metric is for success? Because you know that every time you work with a CMO, I will deliver on this, that, and the other thing because they know what good looks like, and we can align on what good looks like. And they're not just picking metrics out of the air that I have to adhere to. Valerie Dennis Craven (28:18) They at least get it. Tangled Rabbit (28:30) We have a plan and I know that plan every single time I step in with a CMO and it might adjust like things might flex because they're at a different stage. Valerie Dennis Craven (28:39) Yes. Tangled Rabbit (28:39) These are the things we're going to accomplish together. Valerie Dennis Craven (28:40) Okay, that, yes. Yes, that makes sense. That provides a new way of thinking, or even you were able to articulate maybe, yeah, some things I haven't, whether I haven't pieced them together, or noticed the trends of working with those different CXOs. So that was really good. That helped. Tangled Rabbit (29:02) Awesome. Valerie, I don't know that we ever got into the name of your business. How can people, what is your company and how can people find you? Valerie Dennis Craven (29:09) Yes, I am TrueNorthContent. Again, I love helping throughout marketing, but content really is my niche. It's TrueNorth, you know, to help guide people to their correct destination. The URL is a little different. It's mytrueNorth.co and I'm also on LinkedIn and Instagram as well. Tangled Rabbit (29:35) Perfect. I warned Valerie that at the end of untanglings, I usually have homework. Valerie, if I had to give you homework, I would say, lean into the CMO first. If you had to define what problem you solved for a CMO, what would that be? They are bringing you on for some reason. What problem do you solve for a CMO? And I think that's pretty, I think you are pretty close to just being able to just. write it down right now. And then maybe rough out kind of what those packages might look like or what those offerings might look like. Then I want you to try it for the other C-suite leaders. Valerie Dennis Craven (30:08) I love that, yes. Tangled Rabbit (30:10) And then once you're done, be like, which of these makes me happy? So that's your homework. Valerie Dennis Craven (30:14) I love how you could even see what lit me up through our conversation too. Tangled Rabbit (30:20) Yeah, it was pretty great. Well, thank you for being with us for everybody else on the call. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Untangled and we'll catch you next time. Valerie Dennis Craven (30:23) Yeah, that's good.