Tangled Rabbit (00:00) Welcome to Untangled, a podcast for founders and people considering becoming founders. This is where building a business gets personal. Each episode features honest conversations with founders about standing out in crowded markets, defining what makes them and their work different, and building something that actually fits. I'm Beth Elliott, and I'm glad you're here. Let's jump in. Tangled Rabbit (00:23) Welcome back everybody. Today I'm joined by Tanya Coller, founder of Crinkle AI. Tanya, will you take a few minutes and tell us about your founder journey? Tanya (00:33) Yes, that is a really good question. So I have actually always wanted to be an entrepreneur and kind of start my own startup. I've tried lots of different things. I've tried kind of being a workshop facilitator. I've tried a couple other businesses and nothing really stuck. But really, it was last year when I started using ChatGPT to learn how to code. Actually, I've always been a product manager. I always looked on the other side and like, what are you guys doing over there? You know, they kind of seem like magic, those engineers. And I've always, you know, been wanting to learn to build something myself and open up ChatGPT and teach me, you know, Python. So I started learning how to code and then realized there was some AI tools such as Lovable. And Lovable is an AI tool that helps you build web apps, but through natural language. So I was like, oh, this could be the best of both worlds. I could bring my product manager hat and my creative problem solving side, but I could also partner with Loveable to code. And that's where I really got the idea of what can I build. And being a former product coach and doing a lot of other coaching or workshop facilitation, I really had this passion to help solve the problem of learning and development. And how do we help learners engage with their learning more than they were able to with just SharePoint or PDFs or videos? how can we also help the experts, like myself as a former coach, understand where learners are really struggling and how can we help them better? So that's where I started diving in and using Loveable to create this platform and that became then my passion for hey, could I turn this into finally, you know, be a founder and have my own startup. So that's kind of how we came to be to Crinkle AI and then the platform Ayla Tangled Rabbit (02:36) So what are we working on together today? Tanya (02:38) Yeah, so today, Ayla is an AI platform that helps any kind of learner and any kind of expert with content. So where I get turned around is that because it is so ubiquitous, it could be used for any type of person who says, hey, I have really great content, I'm an expert in this, and I have these learners who want to engage with my content, I am struggling. to find my ideal customer persona, profile. Where do I start first? I think about it as either a target, like I said, a target on a bullseye, or I think about it as a bell curve. And I'm not sure where I should start. I have kind of four different buckets. And so I was excited to talk with you because maybe you can help me untangle where to get started. Tangled Rabbit (03:32) What are your buckets? Tanya (03:33) So there's four different types of people that I can think of in my head that would really benefit from something like this. So learning and development organizations or people, right? So those folks that have courses like on Maven or Coursera or Udemy, they have courses that's all kind of digital content, but it's very one way directional. Their students engage with the content, maybe go live, but there's no way to actually converse. with the content and what Ayla provides them is a way to actually like as a chat function where it's a closed system and they chat with the course. I don't understand this, help me understand that better, what about my situation? It lets them dig in in a two-way ability as if they're talking to the curriculum, talking to the course. The other bucket would be like similar where are coaches. So there's all different kinds of leadership coaches or lifestyle coaches or ⁓ Coaches who are teaching ⁓ interview styling and they have a lot of content. Well, their folks want to be able to engage with that content 24 seven. Those coaches want to know. Right, like what kind of conversations are people having with my content so I can make it stronger and more relevant. It kind of happens on both sides. There's internal sales teams, right? So internal sales teams typically have certain products they need to sell, certain ways they're supposed to sell. Let's say it's the Challenger sale or it's some kind of specific framework. So what Ayla provides them is the way to say, hey, you know, understand our products better in this closed system, understand our sales technique in this closed system. They can even practice live with an AI partner that is created by the sales managers. that sales manager gets progress reports, they each get kind of progress reports and feedback. So could be good for that. The last group that I think would be fun and interesting, but I think is probably on my lower, I think we'll probably decide don't start there, are authors and podcasters. So authors have books, podcasters have content. But how do people, let's say there's people with like 300 podcasts or there's authors with these great series of business books. Again, one way, their listeners consume the information. They can't really engage with the podcast. They can't engage with the book. can't ask Roger Martin, well, how does this, how does my strategy cascade look? And the authors and the podcasters actually have no way of knowing what kind of questions are people having about my content? Where are people getting stuck? Where are they even? What are the trends? What are people most interested in? we have, is this flywheel essentially. And I could see each of those groups benefiting from it, but I don't know where to start. Tangled Rabbit (06:29) Can you tell me about what market research you've done so far? Tanya (06:33) Yes. So mainly I focused on coaches because I was a coach. So I have eliminated a group of coaches and those coaches are the kind of coaches that focus more on them. Like it's good. But their passion and their value is the one-on-one conversation. They don't maybe have a lot of content. They are the they are the content or they need to be able to have one-on-one conversations or answer somebody by text. So I know that that kind of coach is not the market. So I've been talking, the most market research I've done is in the coaches that have content. So a couple of our current customers are coaches that have a lot of content and coach other people with that content. And then their students, ⁓ receive Ayla, receive like an Ask John is one of them, and they get to engage with that content. So that seems to be the strongest. I've been trying to connect with course makers, haven't had a lot of success being able to like make a connection with them. And same with internal sales teams. haven't, this is, I'm finding it hard to even make connections and be able to have those conversations with people, to be honest. So that's another thing that I'd love to talk through or get advice on. Tangled Rabbit (07:54) you think about your go-to-market strategy. Tanya (07:58) Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (08:00) and you're talking about already having trouble getting into certain markets. Part of what you want to think about is who do you have access to? If you don't have access to, how are you going to get access to them? Are you going to be the one going door to door? Are you going to hire a sales team? The plan needs to be like, I have to be able to get to these people, both for market research and to sell my solution at some point. Tanya (08:07) Yeah. Right. Tangled Rabbit (08:24) And if you're struggling with that right now, then while they might be a future customer of yours, it might not be the right place to start. Tanya (08:34) I like that. Yep. That makes sense. Like who is the hardest to reach right now? Don't start there. Or for me to reach. Other people might be able to reach them, but I can't reach them. Where I have probably the most in is kind of the leadership coaches, the coaches that coach executives, the coaches that coach fractional people who want to move into a fractional type of work. So that makes sense. That makes sense. Tangled Rabbit (09:02) There's something called the lean canvas and they'll talk about your beachhead Tanya (09:05) Yeah, yeah. tell me more about that. Tangled Rabbit (09:08) So beachhead is where you start and it's usually very focused. You're fulfilling a very specific need for that beachhead so that you can build it, test it, grow it, have people love it, knowing that it's likely going to be expanding out from there. So it's good to plot out what's the beginning, where do you want this thing to land, and what are the steps that need to happen between the beachhead and growing into that future state. Tanya (09:10) Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah. break. Right, right. Tell me a little bit more about... you know, product market fit is kind of an interesting area that I think where I've been maybe struggling is. building something first, which I probably shouldn't have done, but that's okay. I liked building it because it's so fun to build on on Lovable. It's amazing. And it was just teaching me a lot of really good skills in terms of understanding how software works in general. So being able to build something yourself using AI tools was extremely beneficial for me as a founder to intimately understand my product inside and out. Tangled Rabbit (09:48) You Tanya (10:12) And here's where I think I struggle is there is this concept of start small, start with one. Or is there a have lots of conversations and see what does get traction? Like I'm making the assumption that, coaches is where I start because I know them. But the other side of me is like, hey, have as many conversations as you can with a lot of different people. and see where there's traction. So I'm trying to decide what, you know, I'm trying to do both at the same time, but I think that's where I tangled. Tangled Rabbit (10:49) So you and I talked about your love of lovable and your ⁓ mindset of build first, Tanya (10:52) Yeah. I'll say caveat. The interesting thing is I've had this idea actually for about a year. This was about a year ago. I said, as a coach, we really should have a way for people to engage with their learning and me to figure out where people are struggling. The interesting thing is that I put it aside because I talked to those coaches who said, hey, this is not a thing. But then one of my first customers is the one who came to me and said, hey, you know, I would really like a platform where I could upload my content and my people could, my students could ask them about it. I really need them to be able to engage with my content in like a notebook LLM type of way. And, you know, I actually know a few other people who would want this as well. So it was like, there was a little bit, a little bit of a signal, I should say, not clear. Tangled Rabbit (11:52) wondering how you got started. Tanya (11:53) Yeah, yeah. it was like a, it was a gentleman I'd known in our community. And he has a set of coursework, ⁓ like a eight week course with coursework every week. And he came to me and said, Hey, could you build me something like this? And I said, this is crazy because I've been thinking about building like this, something like this for a year. And so it was a signal. you know, when he said, is great and I have some other clients that might be interested and things like that. So there was a signal there. It wasn't completely, what is that movie? Build It and They Will Come, Field of Dreams. It wasn't completely Field of Dreams. There was a signal there at least, but, and then once you build it, you're like, gosh, you know, there's a lot of different, a lot of different people who could benefit from this, you know, so. Tangled Rabbit (12:27) yeah, the field of dreams. Did that person give you the names of the other people who would be interested? What did those conversations lead to? Tanya (12:49) Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, so those are some conversations where they are, we're have some meetings to soon get onboarded in February. So they will be potential customers as well, which will be really cool. And then another came from a friend who is in kind of leadership coaching. She gave me a referral and that gentleman is already started. So I have a couple of customers on which is nice. ⁓ Tangled Rabbit (13:16) Okay. Tanya (13:17) So it definitely is kind of this leadership, executive coaching kind of area. So I guess I could just continue down that road. But I feel like, am I pigeonholing myself? I think that's my fear, which is probably a lot of founders fear. Are you kind of pigeonholing yourself? Are you too narrow or something? Tangled Rabbit (13:39) but you're getting traction. Tanya (13:41) Yeah, yeah. Tangled Rabbit (13:43) and you have people who are excited about what you're bringing out. Tanya (13:47) Yes, yes, yes. But it feels don't know why I am stuck on are they the right audience? I don't know how big this is. Maybe I haven't done my, you know, sizing of the market or I don't know. Tangled Rabbit (14:09) How many people are in your pilot? Tanya (14:11) So I have one really strong customer who has about 20 users, his students, I think there's about 20 students. And then the other one is coming on and he'll have probably like five because he's more trying out the voice AI component. And then the next customer in February, I don't know how many people they have yet, but it's small, we're just rolling out. Tangled Rabbit (14:33) that's such a great size. So let's talk a little bit about first market research. Your best insights are going to come from qualitative research. So you can send out all the surveys, you can do all the quant work that you want, and people are going to write down the things that they're going to write down, and they're going to rate the things, and they're going to give you number ranges and whatnot. Tanya (14:44) Right, right. right. Tangled Rabbit (14:57) By having a small number of people that you are working intimately with, you're going to see how they're using the platform or how they're not using the platform. This is like... when I was doing this in corporate, we would work with a handful of customers to get finger in the winds, are we directionally correct, and it also immediately starts flagging the big things that you didn't think about yet. Tanya (15:01) Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Totally and and this is why I am this is another thing. I think as a founder that you wrestle with is maybe quality over quantity or, you know, as a founder especially that's bootstrapping, right? You struggle with, there's a super huge benefit of just having one or two clients on right now and a handful like 20 or so users because I am catching a few things like, we need to make that, we need to fix that or, like, and I'm not, and they all know they're in a beta trial. They all know that things aren't gonna be perfect right now. why they're here. And I've told them like, you were on this platform now to help me be a partner, to help me find those moments. So that makes me feel great. But on the other hand, you struggle with, is it going fast enough? Right? And how do you balance that? How do you balance that pressure, right? Of being a solopreneur, of being someone who's bootstrapping, but you want it to be good, but you want it, you know, at some point. You need some money, right? So that's where I think you've caught me exactly in that moment where you're trying to find that balance. But I appreciate really hearing from you that, and maybe that's what we need to hear more as founders is. Tangled Rabbit (16:26) so many. Tanya (16:41) It's okay to go slow in the start. It's okay to just have a couple of people on. ⁓ Tangled Rabbit (16:49) There are some people who would give anything to have a handful of beta testers. Tanya (16:58) Yeah, that's a really good point. I think where you're making me realize is that I actually need to think about how fortunate I am versus like what I don't have, right? Tangled Rabbit (17:09) As of today, yes, as of today, you are so incredibly fortunate to have aligned your product with such a forgiving market. Tanya (17:11) ever today. Right, Yes. you know, what's amazing is sure I have little things that come up here and there, but the feedback, like I just got a voicemail yesterday from my first customer who was kind of my original partner, right? And built like he was the impetus of building this. And he showed it to his students and he said, holy moly, my students are blown away. This is powerful, Tanya. So it's really good feedback, which is great. And I always get amazing feedback from the people that use it. So I just have to remember. And then I learned. I met with a potential customer, and I am trying to have conversations of what's missing. For example, she said, hey, can you upload from your Google Drive? And I said, that's a really good point. No, it's just really from your own computer or from a link or something like that. She said, that would be. probably huge for people to be able, a lot of people store their docs. So, you know, and put that on my roadmap of that's a really good to know, you know, so it is good. It is good. think maybe the story here is that as founders, we need the permission or to almost like appreciate what you do have and it's okay to go slow, you know. Tangled Rabbit (18:36) Yes. And think about the things that you are gaining in this moment. So the things that you should be gaining, and it sounds like you're building your roadmap out of this work. If you're not already, you should be capturing your quotes, your testimonials. That guy who said this, my students thought it was amazing. Write it down. Tanya (18:41) Right, right. Yes, yes, I'm not good at that. Yes. Yes, I need to do better at that. Yeah, you're right. You're right. And like, look at those things, right? When you're having your like, moments of like, what am I doing? Yeah, look at those things. That's right. That's totally. Tangled Rabbit (19:13) But it goes beyond that because what that's actually building for you right now is your marketing for when you go forward. Tanya (19:20) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Tangled Rabbit (19:21) These beta tests are all about testimonials, stories, and the successes that people have so that when you expand to your larger market, you're not just like, I don't know what people say. Tanya (19:25) Okay. Right. Well, and what would be really probably beneficial is to dig in, tell me more. Right. What was holy moly? What blew their minds when you said this is so powerful? In what way? Right. So really using those moments, I think as a former product manager, we look for the moments of that were hard for people. tell me why that was hard or tell me why that was friction or tell me what you want to be able to do. Tangled Rabbit (19:41) Yes. Yes. Tanya (20:00) We focus on what's missing, but we don't focus as much as, wow, why did that surprise and delight you? What was so cool about it? Because we don't want to break those things either. So I probably, those were signals that I need to dig in and say, what was so exciting? What was so cool? I love that. I'll do that. That's good. That's good. you know, as a solo founder, first time solo founder too, in this beta phase, it's also kind of knowing what should this feel like? What should we be doing? What questions should we be asking? You know, just having more, if anyone out there wants to put a course on beta phase, what does this phase look like? You know, what are our, you know, what kind of questions you'll be asking what really only should be a few people it should be you know that kind of thing so Tangled Rabbit (20:55) In the work that I was doing in Fortune 500. It was always starting with a handful. And it started with problem identification, prioritizing those pain points, and then iterative testing. Tanya (21:03) Mm-hmm. Right, right, right, yeah. Tangled Rabbit (21:12) And those are the things that really succeeded because you then had everybody on board with, okay, we understand why we're doing this. We understand the problem that we're solving. We've gotten people really excited because we were giving them really one-on-one attention, which then leads to them talking about it with their friends because they were a part of making this happen. Those then, so then the next question for you is how do you equip these folks to become your advocates? Tanya (21:25) Yeah. Right. Right, right, right. Tangled Rabbit (21:38) almost like your sales team and foremost, like what incentives do you have for them if they start telling their friends about this? Tanya (21:43) Interesting. Yeah. Let me ask you about that. I mean, what do people, what have you seen in terms of, because I've thought about, is it a revenue share? Is it a kickback? Is it, know, like a percentage off? it, I don't, I don't even know. Like, what would that, because I, I love that idea of it's almost like an affiliate program, right? Where I think like, with Loveable, I'm an ambassador for them and you can get an affiliate link and if people use your link, know, like a lot of these affiliate programs. So it's an interesting concept and it helps people feel good about, you know, promoting and but I think also like John has introduced me to a lot of people because he just likes it and wants other people to have the benefit of it, you know, too, for their coaching practice. So that feels really... really feel good to. And I think just, you know, a lot of times you just like referring people to things because you want them to have a benefit of something. Like you found something cool. Have you tried this? You know, so yeah. Tangled Rabbit (22:42) Yeah. And some people will feel weird about getting that, ⁓ that discount or whatever else. But you asked, what have I seen? The question I think, what do I put to you is during this pilot phase saying, Hey, you've been out with me on this journey. Is there some way, like, is this something that you would share with your friends? Would you be interested in some sort of program? What would that program have to look like? Tanya (22:52) Yeah! Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (23:10) for you to even want to participate in it. Tanya (23:13) Yeah, yeah or to your point you're right stay curious about it and if they say no that would feel weird I wouldn't I wouldn't want that. I actually did talk to somebody Kind of about that and he said no, then it wouldn't feel genuine then it then it would feel Like friends couldn't trust me. Are they am I doing it for the incentive or am I doing it because I really like it? Right and I said, well then yeah, I mean he's like but I want to I want to promote this because I really like it not because I'm getting an incentive. So I that was interesting. Tangled Rabbit (23:42) Yeah, you are in such an amazing place. Tanya (23:46) Thank you. mean, that's helpful to hear. It's helpful to hear because, and this is what's so great about, you know, talking to someone who's maybe been through it or, you know, you feel pretty lonely. It's a solo journey, right? You know, and you try to read all the books and you, you know, try to do all the right things, but you're juggling, you have so many hats that it's hard to focus sometimes and see what you do have. Tangled Rabbit (24:11) Yes. We'll talk offline. I have some connections that might be helpful for you to talk to in terms of realisticness, in terms of how fast something like this can go to market and start being profitable. Because I think that will be a helpful mirror for you to have of not being too hard on yourself. And also as a solopreneur who is looking for that moment that it takes off. Tanya (24:24) Yeah. Yeah. Right. Tangled Rabbit (24:38) Just for planning that will be helpful for you to have. Tanya (24:40) Yeah. Right, for sure, for sure. Yes, I really appreciate that. I think, yeah, the more people, you know, you can talk to, the more different perspectives you get has been really, this year has been such an amazing year of meeting people like yourself and just hearing all the different perspectives and the experience that people bring and people want to help, which is really great. Tangled Rabbit (25:02) Yes. The things I would like I would write down, you know, you already have requirements. You're really good at that piece of it. Testimonials. Tanya (25:12) Yes. Yep. Tangled Rabbit (25:14) curiosity, like if you don't make assumptions, so when they say something's amazing or I loved this thing or whatever else and you're like, they must have loved, if you're filling in they must have or that must be because, be like, I don't know that for sure. Ask that next level until you are sure you don't have assumptions on what they're saying. Tanya (25:26) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Good point, good point. Yes, I love that. Yeah, I do have some calls with some of the actual end users too to say like, hey, what are you, how are you experiencing? Not just the buyer, but I have an interesting thing. I have a buyer and users, end users. So need to be balancing the feedback from both of them. Why aren't you using it or why are you using it? And what do you love about it? And where is the friction point? So yeah, I mean, this is the... I actually love having these conversations if I can get in front of people, you know. Tangled Rabbit (26:03) Yeah. Are you doing side by sides? Tanya (26:07) tell me what that means. like watching people use it? Yes, I haven't been able to do that, but I'm gonna put that in there. That's a really great, like watching them use it. That's great. Yes, yeah, I haven't done that yet. I used to do that in my product job, so I'm not sure why I haven't done it with this, but feels different. Tangled Rabbit (26:23) Because it's weird when you're in your home and asking to, like, and probably the people you're working with are in their home, so it's not like you can just go to their desk and sit down next to them. Tanya (26:29) Right, right, right, right. I think it's also, you know, when you're a product manager, that's your one job. But as a founder, you're everything. So you don't think about, you can't go deep on one thing, which has really been really interesting to experience. You're thinking about everything at once. But this has been super helpful in terms of, Tangled Rabbit (26:51) Yes. Tanya (26:57) More just really appreciating the beta phase, really appreciating kind of where we're at that we do have a couple of customers on with some good users and just focusing on that for now is good. And then continuing to have conversations. I had a conversation yesterday with someone from learning development. That doesn't means I can't go that direction is just helpful to kind of know what these different industries would need from it. Tangled Rabbit (27:23) this what you are pulling with your coaches right now are the microcosm of what you're going to need going into corporate. Tanya (27:30) Mm-hmm, okay. Tangled Rabbit (27:34) because they are all within learning and development within corporate, you are usually working with trainers within their functions, within their divisions who are building with usually working with an instructional designer to build out content. There's enough that's lost in translation between the expert and the instructional designer and getting it posted. Tanya (27:40) Mm-hmm. Okay. Tangled Rabbit (27:56) To be able to say, we've worked with people who coach people, and here's how they're using it, and here's how this ladders up to your organization, it's more compelling to say that you have success stories. The other thing that you're going to be watching out for in corporate is the sales cycle, especially for technology. I know that just even services is 12 to 18 months to then have something that layers on top of technology. You're talking about a weighty. Tanya (28:09) Mmm. Okay Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (28:25) So it might be interesting to then look at, okay, if we're working with coaches, are there coaches that are working in corporate? Tanya (28:35) Right, right, right, yes. Tangled Rabbit (28:37) servicing corporate and then you would then get these leaders seeing this awesome way that they're interacting with their their contracted coaches system and they're like my gosh we have to have this and building your internal advocates through your customers clients Tanya (28:51) Right, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that will be the, know, eventually down the road roadmap. The one interesting thing is to get into, so I've had conversations with coaches like that, because that's where I was, right? I was at a transformation corporate level, so I have lots of peers. When I talk with them, kind of what I didn't realize technology-wise is that the platform needs to be, it's called SOC, S-O-C-2, SOC compliant. And it's like a $50,000 investment because you have to have these audits and all that kind of stuff. Well, I don't have $50,000 to do that way. But it's a roadmap. It's a down the road, hey, let's get in more small business, medium businesses that aren't at a corporate level where the enterprise level security, let's build it up, but then go into that more learning and development. or in my head, it was going to companies that do transformations, whether they're culture transformations, leadership transformations, product and agile transformations, it could be using AI as a transformation, right? But that will have to be a roadmap item for sure, because that will need, that's probably at least two or three years, if not more down the road. Tangled Rabbit (30:08) I would encourage you as you're thinking about that is what specifically is the problem that you're solving in corporate and making it as, I'd say as ubiquitous as possible, right? Cause it doesn't matter if it's technology, it doesn't matter if it's sales, right? We've talked about all the functions. the person who's bringing this in is likely going to be a centralized L and D function. That's cause you mentioned. Tanya (30:20) It's Tangled Rabbit (30:33) Udemy me, Coursera, you mentioned all of the things that a procurement team would have to evaluate and bring in through one or more decision makers that are likely central in the organization. Tanya (30:45) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tangled Rabbit (30:48) When you think about SOC compliance, think about your pricing model and what then makes it make sense for that lift to happen. One of the things that was going through my mind, even with your current clients, is how does it even display? And maybe there's a lower price point where Ayla powered by Crinkle is obvious on it. Tanya (30:53) Yeah, right, right. Right, right. Mmhmm. Tangled Rabbit (31:17) So that whoever goes in it is like, this is an add on that's not Udemy It's not Coursera, It's not my coach. This is something that is added on. But if they want it white labeled, sure, but we're going to charge you more. Tanya (31:21) Right, right, right. Yeah. Right, right, right. Yeah, well, actually, interesting white labeling is already there. So yeah, so people can white label their own programs. They can add their own colors. They can add their own logos. I knew that would be important to people. So yeah, so that white labeling is already existing, which is for good or for bad. I think it will... Yeah. Right. Tangled Rabbit (31:38) Good. think about if you want a layer so that you can continue to get your name out and have different price points. Tanya (31:56) Right, right. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. And I know that that's a long cycle. That's a something that's a potential avenue to go down. But yeah, right now, I think it's staying focused on the coach role, which is which is what I was too. So I understand, you know, kind of working at as a coach. that's comfortable to me. But I also know a lot of people in that space and then they can refer to each other in that space. and it's not a super long cycle to your point. It's just them deciding. It's not 18 other people deciding and some procurement team deciding. That will be, if at all, if at all down the road. So cool, this was really helpful. I'm excited too, I'm excited too. I mean, I think if people stumble upon it, actually one of my favorite things is, Tangled Rabbit (32:36) Yes. I'm so excited for you. Tanya (32:48) My favorite things to do is when I find a product, what can I do with it? What can I do with it that other people haven't been doing with it? I would love for people who like to live outside the box, who like to think creatively, to come to Ayla and say, hey, I know a lot of people just use this as coaching, but I could use it for XYZ because it is really a neutral platform. Anyone who has learners, anyone who has content and wants to have a flywheel of always keeping their content relevant, but their learners engaged, I would be loved to speak to people who are like, have you thought about, like, or I could use it this way. Great. Love it. You know, so it's kind of fun. Tangled Rabbit (33:28) The thing that is the watch out at this point is you want your coaches feel like you're speaking their language. You know them, you get them, it's an easy referral because you work, right? All of the things. You have the language say, I get you. And of course, other people who show up, lovely. The question is, is at what point do you, there's a sweet spot for keeping it close in your language. And then the point at which it's naturally, okay. Tanya (33:42) Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tangled Rabbit (33:57) It's a tipping point where I need to expand it into what's beyond my beachhead. Tanya (34:01) Right, right, right. No, that makes sense. And almost where you have, I could imagine, I guess you have different even marketing and different value props based on that audience. Right. Yes. Okay. Yeah. That's interesting you say that because a friend of mine is an SEO specialist and she was talking about having different landing pages. I can't remember what product she was working for. Tangled Rabbit (34:14) landing pages, different... Tanya (34:29) but it was kind of ubiquitous where different industries could use it to solve different problems, their own problems. So she was creating landing pages that were using their language, right? And how this product could solve that specific problem that they have, but to different industry, it could solve a similar problem, but in the language that they use. Interesting. Yeah, okay. Tangled Rabbit (34:51) Yeah, Ayla for coaches, Ayla for corporate, Ayla for Tanya (34:56) Got it, got it. And I think that's where I've been struggling is probably trying to keep it too ubiquitous. And then using, when you use all language, it means nothing. Okay, okay. I like it, I like it. I'll stick on the track I've been on then, which I think feels right. Even just having this conversation it is reassuring to know that. Just stick with the path I'm on. Tangled Rabbit (35:07) Yes. Tanya (35:23) And don't try to make it too big yet. You know, yeah. Yeah, not yet. I love that. I love that. That's super helpful. Tangled Rabbit (35:25) not it. Anything else that you'd like to share with the audience before we leave? Tanya (35:35) you know, I think it's just if you're out there, if you're interested, if you're a coach, if you have a small business, I love meeting people and just hearing about their business, what type of problems they're trying to solve. Is this something that could be helpful to you and your clients? Give you a demo, show you around and just, you know, see if it's something you'd like to come try with me. Tangled Rabbit (36:01) How can people find you? Tanya (36:03) Yes, so they can go to our website, is ayla.cringle.ai. That's A-Y-L-A dot crinkle C-R-I-N-K-L-E dot A-I. And you can schedule time with me. You can actually even try it out. Our website has a little like try out the closed chat system. So I uploaded a bunch of actual content and you can play with it. and see what it was like for your clients for the learner side. And then I'm happy to hop on and show you our flywheel where you as an expert also get to understand what questions people are asking. Tangled Rabbit (36:42) Perfect, Tanya. Thanks so much for being my guest today. For all of you who are listening, if you are in the space of early market research and need some help, Tangled Rabbit can help you in that space. ⁓ It's not as complicated as some people make it out to be. So let's chat. and until next time, thanks for tuning in. Tanya (36:45) Yeah. Yeah, thanks, it great.