Tangled Rabbit (00:00) Welcome to Untangled, a podcast for founders and people considering becoming founders. This is where building a business gets personal. Each episode features honest conversations with founders about standing out in crowded markets, defining what makes them and their work different, and building something that actually fits. I'm Beth Elliott, and I'm glad you're here. Let's jump in. Tangled Rabbit (00:24) Today, I am untangling with Lindsay Early. These untangling episodes are about creating space to explore a business without pretending there's one right answer. We'll look at what's tangled, challenge assumptions, and lead with clearer ways of thinking, acting, and testing what's next. In the end, we help founders create businesses that feel authentic to them and align to the needs of real clients. Lindsay, thanks for being here. Lindsay Early (00:47) Thanks for having me. Thank you. Tangled Rabbit (00:50) the people listening, will you tell us a bit about who you are and how you landed here with me? Lindsay Early (00:55) I'm Lindsay Early. I'm a marketer, I'm a media maven and a media lover. I've spent the last two decades growing and building media strategies for brands within retail, CPG, healthcare, digital wellness. ⁓ And my role is really always kind of been the same. just am really, I really love to help make an impact, help grow businesses, help get messages and communications out to the right people at the right time to really have an impact. And the last nine months of my career have really tested my resilience. I was given an opportunity to kind of take a pause and ⁓ think about what's next, realign, reflect. on what I want to do for the back half of my career per se. And this my transition kind of and career story really tested me. I navigated job hunting, I navigated networking, and I was like, it's, it was really a struggle, but I found a place where I'm putting more. I came to the conclusion that I can, what I can control is what I can do to try to make an impact in how the job market or how marketers can find resources and talent. And so I'm betting on myself and trying to do some consulting and build a business and meet clients where they are. ⁓ And to leverage my value and my expertise to help businesses grow. And that's all kind of grounded in helping them feel. that their brands and these businesses are heard and seen. And so I'm kind of making Tangled Rabbit (02:30) So, Lindsay Early (02:31) this leap right now in my career to do just that and control what I can control. And that is trying to drive where my career goes next with some more clarity and resilience. Tangled Rabbit (02:46) Will you talk a little bit, the last time you and I spoke, you talked a bit about your process for reflection through 2025. And I know that there's a lot of founders who are listening who maybe they... became a founder because they just happened to find themselves in the market and they didn't want to deal with the market or right, They realized that the last half of their career, they really didn't want to be doing the things that they were doing or they didn't want to work for the man anymore. So can you talk a little bit about your process of reflection and how you landed here today? Lindsay Early (03:18) Yes. So in the marketing space, you either work as a marketing or an ad sales kind of position. I've been one where my marketing career has been primarily on the brand side. But typically you get to pass, you get to kind of decide, do you want to, you know, be integrated within a brand, be a future CMO and really be close to the business? Or do you want to work for an agency that's consulting and sort of doing things with a bunch of clients and able to drive only so much? I was in a position where I was leading at an agency and I realized, you know, I missed being closer to the brand, being able to really have a bigger seat at the table. And, I realized, you know, most of my career, 15 out of my 20 years have been on a brand side. And so I was at this turning point where I was reflecting while I know for sure, you I would love to be back brand, right? That is sort of, you know, where I think my heart and my passion and best lies. But if I'm going to be able to consult Tangled Rabbit (04:21) . Lindsay Early (04:21) and be able to help multiple businesses or leverage my expertise across various brands or leaders, I kind of want to do it on my terms, right? And so I want to be able to consult and help future marketing leaders. leverage some of my expertise and my experiences to build their teams and their practices. And so that's what I was able to reflect on. and it gave me an opportunity to also find the right balance and some of the other things that I like to do to support my community, whether it be nonprofit, et cetera. So it really gave me an opportunity to think through how I can control how I lead and how I consult. Tangled Rabbit (05:03) So what does your business look like today? Lindsay Early (05:04) ⁓ boy, ⁓ it looks like meeting with a ton of people. It looks like leveraging my network to really expand into medium and small business connections. So most of my career, you you look at my data and I was looking at my network that I really didn't leverage until I needed to be able to leverage it. And I've got big, I've got big corporate people in my corner, right? Cause that's where I spent a lot of my career. was at, you know, big retail, big healthcare. And then I've got, you know, my collaborators and my entrepreneurs in my network. I needed to find a space in the middle. And so what I'm trying to do is build for the medium to small business markets, but I need to build an audience there. So I am trying to strengthen my voice, meet people where they're at to build that. ⁓ business lead and to be top of mind for those size companies here in the Twin Cities. And that's been, think, the biggest challenge is the business development side of launching a new consulting firm. So I'm just kind of right now building some of my products, consulting on some of my advisory boards. So with some nonprofits and building some thinking and case studies for them. and then truly focused right now on business development and finding opportunities to lend my voice. Right. So I'm leaning into that. Tangled Rabbit (06:35) There are people who go into business who would love to come into entrepreneurship with your big corporate contacts. What is it that's driving you not to lean into where you already have a market? Lindsay Early (06:54) ⁓ I just don't think there is the right need for what I'm best at. And what I'm best at is defining more modernized marketing structures that aren't defined yet. In big corporate, they've got a lot of rigor, right? They've got the people in the chairs and they need honestly people that can do more of the day to day and can drive more of the weeds of the efforts. What I want to do is come help make sure that they're driving and setting the strategy. Tangled Rabbit (07:29) So, Lindsay Early (07:30) So they need to be not as in a mature state like corporate is, they need to be ready to build a plan and build a program and build operations for a more mature marketing organization. And where I also thrive is more in the direct to consumer space. And so there is, there's more of a need in medium sized businesses for my type of services. Tangled Rabbit (07:55) Talk more to that. There's going to be people who don't necessarily understand ⁓ the tie from marketing strategy to direct to consumer. How does that different? What does that look like? Lindsay Early (08:06) So consumer base versus business base, really goes down to like the core customers. They're marketing and media, which is what I do is all around knowing who it is you're trying to target, what audiences you're trying to grow or acquire or retain. So I can do both B2B and consumer based, I have a love for really understanding how consumers are, where and how they consume media so that the messages we're trying to get out to the market are as effective as possible. ⁓ And so my background is more ⁓ understanding audience behaviors and consumption patterns and how they spend their day, what drives them. to make business decisions on where to spend media dollars. And most of my background, because I was big in retail and in healthcare, has been more about driving consumer segments versus needing to ⁓ position a product or service that is meant for a business leader or a business side of the audience spectrum. Tangled Rabbit (09:11) What would you say has gone well so far in your journey? Lindsay Early (09:18) What's gone well is I've been able to really be proud of how much this has tested me. What's gone well is the community that I have found in this space during this time of transition and needing, you you haven't, you haven't had to navigate either the job market or taking leaps into founding businesses. or taking pivots in your career until you've built a community and understand a community who's been through it. And what I've been surprised at is how I've been able to take some of that uncertainty and try to stay as positive, optimistic, and understand taking it with grace is what I think has gone well. While there have been times where I've been frustrated, what am I doing? can't support my family in this way. I've got a good support system that's got my back in making this leap be worth it. Tangled Rabbit (10:21) you've talked about retail, you've talked about healthcare, you've talked about consumer segments. Let's talk about the people who would hire you. What are they like? Lindsay Early (10:26) Yep. They are visionaries. They are people that are trying to do good with bringing to market a product or a service that is purpose driven. They are at that point in their business. Tangled Rabbit (10:45) . Lindsay Early (10:50) where they know what they want to say, they know how they want to maybe show up in the market. They've got an established community of brand loyal customers, but they need to take it to the next level. They need to level up how they can leverage marketing investment. They need to have strategies in place on where, why, and how should we market to this segment and how do we best reach them. So it's like these, it's companies in the cusp of wanting to start to really take their startup marketing engine and bring it to, hey, we're established and a modernized marketing engine for continued growth. Tangled Rabbit (11:33) So I'm going to push on you. thing that I, you'll. probably hear me say a bunch of times through this podcast is any business idea is a great business idea as long as you know how to bring it to market and what problems you're solving. So I'm going to build on that when you talk about visionaries who know what they want to say, how to show up, they have loyal customers and they need to be able to level it up. Lindsay Early (11:45) Yeah. What does that mean? Yeah. You'd be surprised how little marketers really have time and capacity to dig deep into the customer. They've got probably a ton of customer data. Tangled Rabbit (12:01) Tell me, not necessarily, I'm even getting to, to me, I would think, well, if they have all that going on, they probably already have a marketing team. They've probably already hired somebody. Okay. Lindsay Early (12:27) They probably are understanding who's buying, why they're buying. But what they're not thinking about is who the future customers. They're not thinking about is the lag time maybe depending on the product of how we make the certain need to building, build them into the consideration set to leverage product and services. They, there is a, I hear a lot in the marketplace. They have a hard time understanding who and how, and have the right data to future proof their core customer for the future. They also have a hard time measuring. So with AI now and with investing in all the different channels available to message and to market and to advertise on, it is a black box on how you pull that together to say, CFO, Hey, CEO, here's what that investment delivered and how either last week or in two months, two years from now, that investment is going to pay off in a return. There's just so much complexity on how we take those audience signals and translate it into business outcomes that having a really clear vision on that is what sets marketers apart and what I have experienced in helping navigate. Tangled Rabbit (13:39) Who are you targeting? Lindsay Early (13:41) I would say they don't have to necessarily fit into the box of healthcare, retail, et cetera. I'm more wanting it to be a persona that is a digital first experience, right? Obviously that's going to be a no-brainer for the day and age that we're in right now. I love retail, so if there is a brick and mortar play, there's certainly some strategies where a new business or a founder and entrepreneur might have a brick and mortar expertise. I have experience there. Tangled Rabbit (14:02) thank Lindsay Early (14:13) They have a marketing budget of between 10 and 20 million. Tangled Rabbit (14:23) Have you been able to sit across from your ideal client? Lindsay Early (14:28) Yes. Strategy. Because right now what they've got is, you know, doers, they've got brand person that's building the brand, helping with the product. What they don't have is a person that helps navigate channel strategy. Tangled Rabbit (14:30) Okay. What do they talk about being important to them? Lindsay Early (14:50) agency strategy, partnership strategy. They have a lot of people in the works activating and they have a person connecting with the CEO to position and product market. But then I don't have someone that's navigating the operational, the measurement and connecting that to how the audience is evolving or changing over time with those insights. there's a gap in the media strategy side. because right now they've just got people and agencies are just executing. in the middle market. Yeah. Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (15:25) said differently ⁓ when your ideal client is out in the wild. Are they like, man, I'm really struggling with my channel strategy. And also the other caveat that I'll put on that is when you think about the differentiator, strategy is such a big loaded word. everybody wants strategy. ⁓ Some will say 2025 was littered with a lot of tactical thinking and not a ton of strategy. So let's get into more. Let's get a little bit away from Lindsay Early (15:58) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tangled Rabbit (16:05) corporate lingo and let's talk about the person who would buy from you and really like viscerally what are they saying? God, this just really stinks in my business right now. I really need to figure this out. Lindsay Early (16:19) So one of the services I provide is ⁓ navigating the agency relationship. So I talked to a few people where they've had the same agency for a few years and it's been the same thing over and over or They are in the middle of needing to make an agency change, but that's like a big project to undertake. One of the services that I provide is navigating RFPing the market, building a, you know, a core guideline of who and how and what do we want from a new agency RFP and helping ⁓ manage that process from start to finish with, with clients and then navigating the agency process there. Tangled Rabbit (16:49) you Lindsay Early (17:04) And so there's a need in that space where it can be something where I might be able to help from a project specific basis, or there's a specific need that there's a campaign coming down last minute and they don't have the bandwidth to really put current resources towards launching a new campaign, a new product line, and it needs to move fast because competitors are really hot. Tangled Rabbit (17:07) you Lindsay Early (17:34) on their tails. I can come in and build the campaign, establish the workflow, establish the strategy, set it up so that the team can execute flawlessly, you know, following week, or at least establish how to build and expand a team as needed, whether it be in house or with an agency partner. Tangled Rabbit (17:59) What would have to be true for that to happen? Lindsay Early (18:03) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tangled Rabbit (18:03) just like context, like, okay, team, we got to get this out. And then we need to know about Lindsay. We need to onboard Lindsay and we need to get her acclimated into our systems. And all of a sudden, all the work that this team could have been putting into the campaign has been spent onboarding you as somebody who then expedites it through. it, there's friction in my mind there on how that would come to play. Lindsay Early (18:31) So it likely could be a product that's been going through the pipeline and now it's ready to launch. And so there's been some long-term planning on how to actually move forward into bringing an outside contract marketer in to help with this. or there's an established support or a contract team that can help onboard any sort of acquisition or needs. If it's a four week, you need to launch something in four weeks, I am not your person. But I am your person if you need to launch a product within the next six months and it needs to have Tangled Rabbit (19:02) you Lindsay Early (19:12) some onboarding time, some strategy time, some alignment time, and then a launch. That is where I fit in. I don't fit in when you've got a campaign to launch in four weeks. That's not where my needs or my services are of value. It is when there's a larger business need with more planful time. Even six months is quick in some businesses. Tangled Rabbit (19:36) Mm-hmm. Lindsay Early (19:37) That's where I think the middle ground is where I have solutions. Tangled Rabbit (19:42) So I am seeing, so you have a couple different things. There's complexity to what you're talking about. Lindsay Early (19:45) Mm-hmm. Tangled Rabbit (19:50) There's resources, there's people in place to some extent. Lindsay Early (19:56) Or not, right? Tangled Rabbit (20:01) Would you work with a company that doesn't have a marketing team? that didn't want to bring in an agency. Lindsay Early (20:07) Yeah. ⁓ Probably not because what I and it depends on the platforms, right? So where I sit is in the strategic planning. Where I sit is in the audience development. Where I don't sit is in build the campaign and meta and build the financial campaign in the weeds. You know what I mean? At the front lines. That is where there's subject matter experts that Tangled Rabbit (20:32) Okay. Lindsay Early (20:40) that need to come in or that either exist or that I would need to hire in order to get hands on. Depending on the client, I can do it, but that is not where my, I excel in this more of the strategic advisory role. Tangled Rabbit (20:41) Okay. Lindsay Early (20:59) And there needs to be a clarity on the execution arm of whether that would be an internal need to have someone execute. or there would be support from an agency to deliver on the strategy that I establish or how I advise with that client. Tangled Rabbit (21:20) So when you come into a business and you find yourself in that space of, I have some interesting people in my network, but they're not my people. Lindsay Early (21:29) Yeah. Yet. Yeah. Correct. Mmm hmm Tangled Rabbit (21:29) They're not the people yet. You're often doing yourself a disservice when you go too broad. So when you say, well, I'm not gonna say no, that actually makes it a little more confusing to who is your right, right person. Lindsay Early (21:52) I ⁓ think it depends on the situation. That I would be able to make those decisions on the fly depending on the needs of the client, depending on the scale in which they need someone to just start a paid search Google campaign. That is something that I would, I think, customize and be able to be agile depending on the client, depending on the budget, and depending on the engagement. Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (22:04) 100%. Yes, you in their moment with them will in the back of your brain be processing all of the amazing things you are going to do with them. They either themselves or through your network Lindsay Early (22:27) Yes. Tangled Rabbit (22:33) need to first see you as the person who's the right person for them and as the only person that they are going to turn to for this thing. Lindsay Early (22:37) Mm-hmm. Yes. Tangled Rabbit (22:44) So when you're like strategy in marketing, in healthcare and retail, which already kind of feels like, ok, like as the person who's outside of that, not saying you won't take healthcare and retail, but in your positioning statements, like those seem like very different things in my mind. That seems very much like something that would go on a resume to say, and I've done healthcare and I've done retail and I've had all this experience and I'm agile, right? Lindsay Early (22:58) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tangled Rabbit (23:12) When you're positioning yourself as a business, it has to be a specific need that you start with so that you become the whatever it is, you become that in the world. And so as people are out networking, they're they're listening for these trigger words from what you've said, from what I've said, from what everybody in these large rooms have said. And when that like ding, Lindsay Early (23:16) Yeah. Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (23:42) It goes off and they're like, you've said all the right words that bring Lindsay to mind. You really shouldn't meet her. Lindsay Early (23:46) Yeah. Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (23:51) That's because you've gotten so specific on what that thing is that then it grows from there. Lindsay Early (23:58) So where I am trying to be specific is not to market myself as a CMO, to not market myself as a generalist and a general marketer where I am, my specialty is and is around media strategy. So that is a subject matter expert focus area in not just bringing going a general go to market as a general marketer, not just a brand positioning. I am focused in on there are marketing and media dollars for external communication and channel spending that we are having a hard time defining, measuring and finding the right audience to go target. Tangled Rabbit (24:23) Okay. you Lindsay Early (24:43) Lindsay is going to be the person to help us navigate that, simplify that and make sure we've got the right people to execute on that. Tangled Rabbit (24:51) So when you think of the people in the right type of company, who is specifically going to be the one who says, we need help with our media strategy? Lindsay Early (25:03) VP of the marketing, CMOs of marketing, I support them. Heads of growth. Potentially, yeah, a head of marketing is who I support. I am not defining myself to come in and be the head of marketing. Tangled Rabbit (25:08) So they need to be big enough to have VPs and CMOs of marketing. Lindsay Early (25:20) I'm defining myself to be a support to lift small and medium businesses that can't afford a 10 team marketing team, but to come in and help define and set a strategy for how to go to market with external media dollars. Yes. Tangled Rabbit (25:36) So small to medium, just putting that out there, like 95%, I don't have this, I'm pulling this out of nowhere. Like this is not a real number, for demonstration, 95 % of businesses I'd imagine fall into the categories of small to medium business. So it's not even something that I necessarily think is helping you. Lindsay Early (25:52) Correct. Fair. Tangled Rabbit (26:02) Again, I don't have all the answers, when you the number of people, I will say 98 % of people I talked to are targeting small to medium businesses. Lindsay Early (26:11) Mm-hmm Tangled Rabbit (26:14) You're a small to medium business. I'm a small to medium business. I am not your customer. Right. So you, like if I were to start talking about your language, I would say that I support VPs and CMOs of marketing. Lindsay Early (26:20) Correct, you are not. Okay. That's a good way to put it. Tangled Rabbit (26:34) Because regardless, if that's who you support and you get somebody at a company that's too big, well, that's not a bad problem to have, right? Right. Lindsay Early (26:45) Correct, correct. There's also a I mean, if if the intent on that push is to get more focused, right? Is that what you're where you're trying to go is to get more focused, then make it less about the size of the business that I want to be supporting and make it more about the people that I'm trying to support. Even though there's a ton, you know, there's like a lot of leaders. in marketing within businesses, but at least ⁓ doesn't pigeonhole me to be only to, I guess I'm trying to, I'm trying to navigate how that makes it more focused, but if it gives more clarity, is that what you're saying? Tangled Rabbit (27:29) When you say VP of marketing or CMO, Lindsay Early (27:33) Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (27:34) it automatically dictates the size of business. Lindsay Early (27:39) Okay. Tangled Rabbit (27:42) better than small to midsize. Lindsay Early (27:42) Or head of marketing. Yeah. Okay. Okay. It dictates it. Okay. Better than saying that small and medium. Tangled Rabbit (27:49) Mm-hmm. Every like the the lawn service is a small to medium franchise that has their administrative assistant handling marketing. Like you don't want from what I'm understanding, that's not necessarily you're going to have to. There's a lot of convincing that's going to have to happen for that to be the right fit for you. Not that you can't. Not that if they came to your door, you're you can make the decision in that moment. Lindsay Early (28:12) Okay. Okay. Yep. Tangled Rabbit (28:23) Yeah, of course I'm going to help you. You got referred to me? Yes, let's talk through your unique needs. But being out and about in the world, to be able to go into those rooms and say, I help VPs of marketing and CMOs. Lindsay Early (28:38) Ok, I like that. Tangled Rabbit (28:39) The next time I meet a VP of marketing and a CMO who says something about strategy or whatever else, you're going to be the one who comes to mind because you're not helping Beth Elliott's solopreneur with her marketing strategy. Media strategy becomes that next piece. Less people are going to understand that. Lindsay Early (28:53) Okay. Yep. It dictates they might have some start of a marketing organization or like an arm within the business by putting the title in there. I now see that. Yeah. Okay. Tangled Rabbit (29:08) The way that I often think about this is you're in a room with lots of people who have to figure out where to fit you in. Lindsay Early (29:13) Yeah. Right. Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (29:15) And as you've met, you mentioned the community. We are all out here just like, who can I connect you with so you can accelerate your business? I want to be a help to you. In those places where there's a lot of lay people, they're going to hear VP and CMO of marketing. The thing that's going to also help them is that they're going to be, okay, I might not be a good contact for you because I don't deal with companies that big. but they're automatically gonna be able to say, do know other people who deal with companies that big, you should talk to this person. What you do behind the scenes. Lindsay Early (29:54) Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (29:56) Yay, good. Do it. Build it. Think about it. Let those referrals come in ad hoc as you build your business. for today, become referable by using very specific language on the size. That's where would like when I think about media strategy, that's going to be interesting depending on the room you're in. When you're at the American Marketing Association, they'll be like, yeah, we understand media strategy. you'll be able to use the fancy words. The question is, is when you're in some of those other rooms. Lindsay Early (30:22) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tangled Rabbit (30:28) what's the language that you need to use that helps them again place you and refer you. Lindsay Early (30:34) Mm-hmm. Yep. I think it, I think it, my differentiators are around, just specifically the media investment and advertising space, not necessarily around like market and brand positioning. which opens up to be more of the marketing generalist. And I think some of my work in measurement, navigating measurement is where I can focus in on the non-marketer Tangled Rabbit (30:56) Mm-hmm. Lindsay Early (31:06) elevator pitch. who might not be in the marketing space, but that I want to share my expertise. Good. They appreciate my strategy most of the time. It's because they've gone with a consultant or a strategy person that's connected to their specific agency. Tangled Rabbit (31:16) Have you gotten close with sitting down with folks to pitch or whatnot? How has it gone? Lindsay Early (31:36) that they've worked with instead of going somewhere separate. Tangled Rabbit (31:41) you Lindsay Early (31:42) there's been big and there's been small. And it's usually come down to timing and cost. Tangled Rabbit (31:51) Did they give you any insights on to what your competition did better or different besides just being in the right place at the right time? Lindsay Early (31:58) No, it's really just been that. That I was the right fit, right? That I could come in and do the job well and that I'd be able to do it. ⁓ It just comes down to some of the uncontrollables, unfortunately. At least that's been the experience so far. Tangled Rabbit (32:13) Is there anything else? Is there anything that other, people are coming to you in general right now for? Lindsay Early (32:24) mentorship, just, you know, general marketing storytelling. collaboration and kind of brainstorm. No. Tangled Rabbit (32:39) Anything that you've been able to bill for beyond like the strategy work? Okay. The reason why I ask is sometimes there's the foot in the door. Lindsay Early (32:52) Mm-hmm. Tangled Rabbit (32:54) Strategy is big. you might position yourself as pre-agency. Mm-hmm. Because it sounds like if that's what you're knocking up against, like if they've already decided on the agency. Lindsay Early (33:00) Yes. Yep. Yep. Or they're indecisive. They don't know which lane to choose. Is this something I should do it myself? Is this something I should do with an agency? They're navigating that what's next now and how to establish some of these channels, some of this part of their marketing arm. Tangled Rabbit (33:30) Mm-hmm. Is there something that when they're in that phase that would be something that you could do or assess for them? Like in a couple hours. Lindsay Early (33:50) I can do campaign analysis. I can do. ⁓ campaign like a you know kind of an annual plan review just evaluating some of their strategy or some of their current strategy review and giving them a an assessment. as like a quick kind of project read feedback on current current media plan. Tangled Rabbit (34:16) Would they be excited by that? Lindsay Early (34:20) I think the value would be giving them prep for challenges and how to push their team for the next plan, giving them validation Like they might just be having some questions internally or getting a lot of challenges internally that I can give them some, you know. practices given my experience on how to arm themselves to continue to push for their funds or to keep their funds, that kind of stuff. Tangled Rabbit (34:47) There's something to be said for that. the foot in the door to demonstrate value. Lindsay Early (34:56) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (34:58) whether it's just with the CMO, VP, or if it's bringing together their team. and having something. So let's say you get to that point where you're like, yeah, Being able to say, can we just take an hour or two? And having your thing ready, that is something that they're like, wow, you'll give that to me? Lindsay Early (35:17) Yeah. Or it's like a workshop, kind of like a session of sorts, strategic session or a measurement framework work session where they've probably got a lot of people navigating a lot of channels. trying to hit certain metrics and KPIs, sort of an opportunity to map that with them is compelling like that. Yeah. Tangled Rabbit (35:41) Yeah, something that when you get out of it, like your idea of the complexity, right? There's something about getting people in a room, showing complexity, and then being able to say afterwards being like, hey, CMO, these are the things that I can help with you. so basically think of it as discovery. Lindsay Early (36:09) Yes. Yeah. Yeah, one of my, one of my, one of my products is a, mark, a measurement framework, right? Specific to paid media, right? There's going to probably be other channels like email and, you know, other channels that might not roll into what is deemed external marketing. Tangled Rabbit (36:12) in an arena that's exciting for that. Like they're gonna be like, oh my gosh, you're gonna do that? I've been wanting to do that for ages. I just haven't gotten around to it. Lindsay Early (36:36) one of the products is building a framework for that lad connecting it to business KPIs, marketing KPIs and media KPIs and sort of having that as a tangible deliverable. Or what I love is, you know, being able to do that collaboratively with teams or organizations to map that out. Tangled Rabbit (36:55) Mm-hmm. Lindsay Early (36:57) And then they get to lift and land that they get to execute on it. They get, have something that they can bring to their CEO or CMO on. Here's how the year or the season or the period is going to be measured and how we'll report out on it on this cadence, et cetera. Okay. Tangled Rabbit (37:11) For you, I'd think of I'd think of almost a laddered approach. I mean, you might want to think of something on your website that is a lead gen type thing. Take this, take this easy breezy survey. It will give you some, some something. Lindsay Early (37:27) Okay. Like as something tangible. For the foot in the door idea, right? It gets back to that foot. Okay. I know. Yeah. No. Tangled Rabbit (37:32) But just, right. But just be careful on how much you're giving away, right? Like make it valuable, but don't give away the farm, right? ⁓ That next step is let's bring your team together. Cause in the size company that you're going to be working in, you are going to have to win over hearts and minds of more than just the CMO. Lindsay Early (37:56) Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yep. Tangled Rabbit (37:57) There's gonna be people working on all sorts of things with different contractors and different freelancers and da, da, da, right? how can, that's where I'm picturing for you. And again, I do not claim to have all the right answers, but something that would be interesting to try for you is, hey, can we get your team together for, can they spare an hour? Like, what do you need? Do you need an hour? Do you need two hours? Like, you know, try to get it as tight as you can because time is money, time is effort. Lindsay Early (38:26) Like an initial free out, like free or consulting hour, right? To kind of unpack or offer that as a product to get in the door. Brainstorm discovery hour, like less about consulting or more about like unpacking or discovery hour. Tangled Rabbit (38:34) I say that this is like, for some reason when you said consulting hour, I'm like. I would encourage you to test out the language on what really excites people. Is it mapping the complexity in their organization? understanding where your media dollars are going right now? Lindsay Early (38:55) Yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. So yeah, think about the language of it, but to your point, not give away too much, but have it be enough where they might need more, right? Okay. Tangled Rabbit (39:19) Right. I go back to there are like sales companies are great because they're like, I'm going to 10 X your results. Right. You automatically have something in mind. We're like, I want 10 X my results. What is that thing that in that hour or two, you'll be like, let's 10 X your results. Let's whatever that pain point is for CMOs and VPs of marketing. Lindsay Early (39:27) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Tangled Rabbit (39:46) Let's figure out where you're losing money. Let's figure out where your ad spend is getting off. Let's figure out whatever those words are to media strategy that are exciting to them, that are going to lead them down a natural path. The language should be a natural path, not overly general, very specific path of we are leading you down this media strategy path. We're going to do this audit. People don't love audits, but you know what I mean. We're going to do this thing. And at the end of it, we're going to see a lot of messy stuff. Lindsay Early (40:00) Yeah, yep. I know it's, yeah, yeah. Tangled Rabbit (40:16) And it's going to be a really great way for me to help you understand how I can use my skills to best help you. Lindsay Early (40:20) Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I like that. Yeah, it's like a it's a foot in the door. What I'm hearing foot in the door, kind of a laddered like lead gen thing, right? That will be compelling based on what I know is a consistent challenge in this space and have it be something tangible that can be in a quick session, right? Is that the key? Is that it's something you can come in? Tangled Rabbit (40:42) Yes. Lindsay Early (40:51) in an hour and deliver and have some form of a selling point of what it will mean to the business. Tangled Rabbit (41:00) And I don't even know that you need to go back and do like, don't even think about like. going back and doing a grand report. Right. This is we are doing some work together. Next thing that comes out of this is Lindsay Early (41:07) No. Just, yeah. We're going to review it, talk about it. Yep. Tangled Rabbit (41:14) our proposal comes next. The other thing that will do is it will help you build stories. It will help you test your language. It will help you get in the room to see what resonates and what doesn't. All of which will help continue to build out what this thing needs to look like, because I guarantee you it will continue to evolve as you try it out. Lindsay Early (41:20) Yeah. True. Yeah. Good point. Okay. Tangled Rabbit (41:37) Is there anybody on, so knowing that you have something, some things to kind of frame up and build, is there anybody on your list who you're like, I could probably test it with that person. Lindsay Early (41:50) just have to think about that. It could, yeah. I've got, yeah, maybe one or two folks that I could position it to them in that way that might be on the cusp of needing something like this, okay. Tangled Rabbit (41:52) Mm-hmm. Lean into action, not perfection. Lindsay Early (42:14) Right. Okay. I love that. Okay. Tangled Rabbit (42:20) So if you could, I would even challenge you if you could find somebody the next three weeks to at least get it on a calendar. Lindsay Early (42:27) For sure. Yeah, I kind of want to spend some time. You know, I don't want to make it a perfect package, but I kind of want to think through what it is. No, just like use my carton, use some of these people to just test it out, sample it out. Okay. Tangled Rabbit (42:44) The thing that many will tell you is that you can sit in your four walls and build the most perfect thing that's not going to be perfect anyways. Lindsay Early (42:52) Okay. Okay. Right. Tangled Rabbit (42:54) You're going to learn so much after that first session in the room with somebody. Lindsay Early (43:03) Well, and had ⁓ another place to test it out. A friend of mine is doing some lecturing and I was like, let me come in and like teach them how to build, you know, measurement frameworks and you know, so it could be something where I can kind of pick up on some of that. That could be fun. Wouldn't be billable, but it would be where I could kind of practice what it could be with the students. Ok. A lot to think about, Beth. Tangled Rabbit (43:12) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's all good. It's good things. Lindsay Early (43:36) Thank you. Yeah, this is cool. ⁓ Anything else I can answer or we can chat about? ⁓ Love it. Thank you. Tangled Rabbit (43:46) Well, I think we're at time. So being mindful of that, but happy to be a resource to you as you continue to test and build out the business. Lindsay, how can people find you? Lindsay Early (44:01) LinkedIn, at Lindsay Early on LinkedIn. I love to communicate and share what I see in the market and how I share with my community on LinkedIn. And then lindsayearlymarketing.com is where I'm trying to build a story of services and a little bit about me. that's where you can find me. or I'll be on the weekends, you can find me on a basketball court on the sidelines. Ha Tangled Rabbit (44:28) Perfect. We'll put your details in the description. And everybody, thank you for joining us for another episode of Untangled. See you next time.